Traveller-digest      Friday, October 8 1999      Volume 1999 : Number 1169



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: Advantages with two weapons
Re: Advantages with two weapons
Re: Laserconstruction tool
Re: Battledress/Battlesuit Protection
Re: Firing two guns at once
RE: Traveller Versions
Re: Firing two guns at once
Re: Metric system & GURPS
Re: Annic Nova (longish)
RE: Firing two guns at once
Re: 3I vs WoD (was Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #1143)
Re: Annic Nova
"Side-arm" Firing
RE: Annic Nova (longish)
RE: Firing two guns at once
Re: Annic Nova
RE: Firing two guns at once
Re: Annic Nova 

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Thu, 07 Oct 1999 21:48:44 -0700
From: Clay <arioch@theriver.com>
Subject: Re: Advantages with two weapons

> BTW, weapons' experts...what's with this sidearm pistol shooting
> that seems to be so popular on TV/movies these days?  Is there *any*
> advantage that you can see to it?

I'm not a weapons expert, but here are the advantages that I could come up with anyway:

1. Ratings - movies tend to sell more when they have unrealistic & outrageous action
2. Showing off - If you actually hit something like that you look pretty good, even if it is only luck.
3. Wannabees - Wannabees get to pretend they are their favorite action hero.
4. Intimidation - people might be more frighten by someone firing two weapons instead of one.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 8 Oct 1999 00:59:17 -0400
From: "Sword Worlder" <swordworlder@clinic.net>
Subject: Re: Advantages with two weapons

- ----- Original Message -----
From: Clay <arioch@theriver.com>
>
> I'm not a weapons expert, but here are the advantages that I could come up
with anyway:
>
> 1. Ratings - movies tend to sell more when they have unrealistic &
outrageous action
> 2. Showing off - If you actually hit something like that you look pretty
good, even if it is only luck.
> 3. Wannabees - Wannabees get to pretend they are their favorite action
hero.
> 4. Intimidation - people might be more frighten by someone firing two
weapons instead of one.

5. Group hits - in densely peopled areas a pair of sawed off shotguns
maximize casualties in a short period.
6. Balance - a Colt 45 on each hip, highly recommended by chiropractors.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
The TRAVELLER Domain
http://www.downport.com
Colin Michael, WebDev

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 8 Oct 1999 18:53:30 +1300
From: "Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>
Subject: Re: Laserconstruction tool

On 6 Oct 99, at 9:20, Eric Henry wrote:

> What's the difference between the FFS1 spreadsheets and the FFS2 sheets?
> 
> Obviously you prefer FFS1 but why?

When it comes to guns, etc, I have no idea. I prefer FFS1 partly 
because I have it and don't have FFS2, partly for it's non-canon tech 
options, and partly because I never took to T4.


- --
Rupert Boleyn <paradise.net.nz>
Wellington, New Zealand

A pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 8 Oct 1999 18:53:30 +1300
From: "Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>
Subject: Re: Battledress/Battlesuit Protection

On 7 Oct 99, at 9:11, Brandon Cope wrote:

> Here are a few thoughts on the battle dress vs infantry weapon debate. I
> have used the TLs appropriate to each system.
> 
> GURPS TL 11 = Traveller TL 14
> 
> Classic Traveller
> Numbers: A FGMP-14 is +6 to-hit someone in battle dress (no TL given)
>      at a range of 50 meters.
> Evaluation: The person in battle dress will almost always get hit and
>      will almost always (average damage 42 vs average person with
>      21 "hit points") get fragged
> 
> MegaTraveller
> Numbers: Battle dress-14 has armor value 18, FGMP-14 has penetration
>      34, damage 14, task is Difficult at 50 meters.
> Evaluation: Person in battle dress will not get hit very often,
>      damage most of the time will be 7, which will not kill an average
>      person (note: I haven't actually played much MT, so my understanding
>      of it's combat system, which I hate, is limited).
> 
> Traveller: The New Era
> I don't have the basic rules for this game, so can't make an
> evaluation. However, the TL12 4.7cm fusion gun cannot penetrate
> the TL12 heavy battle dress in the RC equipment guide. The TL14
> fusion gun has better penetration, but I have no idea of the armor
> value of TL14 battle dress.

TNE's FGMP-14 does 33D6 Damage, with a Pen of 1 (lose one die per point 
of armour). A TL-14 Suit of Heavy Battledress is AV 16 (the Light 
Battledress is AV8). Thus at 50m (well within Short Range) the FGMP-14 
will do 17D6 + 16 (blunt trauma) to the target, and will hit about 50% 
with a reasonably skilled firer. This is enough damage to critically 
wound almost anybody, and will certainly knock them over, etc etc. 
 
> GURPS Traveller
> Numbers: TL11 FGMP does 525 points damage average, TL11 battle dress
>      has DR 240 (doubled vs energy attacks).
> Evaluation: At 50 meters, a hit is very likely. On average, 45 points
>      of damage will get through, forcing 6 death rolls for an
>      average person.
> 
> In Summary
>      GT battle dress seems to be reasonable close to the CT version with
> respect to FGMP/PGMPs, and the MT version for other weapons. FYI, the 6mm
> assault rifle in CT is -6 to-hit someone in battle dress at 50 meters (-2
> if autofired), a little bit better than the chance to penetrate the armor
> in GT (nil without a critical hit, but about the same in MT). This change
> may not keep the "feel" of CT, but is makes more "real-world" sense. Also,
> a LAG with DS, which has a good chance to hurt someone in BD in CT, has
> virtually no chance of doing so in GT (the odds are a bit better against
> TL 10 than TL 11 BD, but still pretty low).

In TNE a LAG DS round will penetrate AV6, so it won't penetrate TL-14 
HBD, but it will do 6 points in blunt trauma, which will probably knock 
the HBD wearer off his feet, forcing a panic check. The HEAP rounds 
won't penetrate either, but they do a bit more impact damage. There is 
no assault rifle in TNE that will go through HBD (or even the light 
stuff), but the 7mm ACR does enough blunt trauma to knock the clumsier 
wearers over. So in TNE battledress does stop bullets, but low tech 
opponents can still knock you down, pin you and then nickel and dime 
you to death.

- --
Rupert Boleyn <paradise.net.nz>
Wellington, New Zealand

Inside every cynic there's a romantic struggling to get out.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 8 Oct 1999 19:11:34 +1300
From: "Frank Pitt" <frankie@mundens.gen.nz>
Subject: Re: Firing two guns at once

> BTW, weapons' experts...what's with this sidearm pistol shooting
> that seems to be so popular on TV/movies these days?  Is there *any*
> advantage that you can see to it?

I hav heard one possible explanation.

Supposedly if you put the ejection port facing down you're less likely to be
hit by the brass, and if you're interested in gathering it up again
afterwards, it won't fly as far or as erratically if it's directed straight
down

Frankie

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 7 Oct 1999 23:20:44 -0700
From: "David P. Summers" <summers@alum.mit.edu>
Subject: RE: Traveller Versions

>Date: Thu, 07 Oct 1999 19:31:54 -0500
>From: Charles R Hensley <hensley.cr@worldnet.att.net>

>>>It should be noted that all "lacks a 'proper' task system" means
>>>is that modifiers for roles aren't listed in "easy, hard, etc"
>>>format.  I put a table for this in my GURPS Traveller article
>>>_years_ ago but it never get that much attention because, frankly,
>>>it not that big a deal...

>>I guess I'm clueless. My well thumbed GURPS Basic book list a gazillion
>
>>skills relating to tasks with the classifications (mental/hard) or
>>(physical/easy) with a default to indicate what Joe Genero has to roll
>to
>>accomplish a task using that skill. I always thought that was a "task
>>system".

>This is not a complete task system.  The ratings given (easy, average,
>hard, very hard) rate the skills relative to each other.  What is
>missing is rating tasks to the skill system.

Lets be clear about this.  This is true if "complete" means "not just
like MT".  Otherwise, one could say that MT doesn't have a "proper"
task system because it, for example, doesn't have a way of
rating how some skills are harder than others.

The fact is that people have made such rating systems.  They
are fairly trivial.  I've had one for years and it hasn't attracted
much attention because it just isn't a big deal.  Such things
can be convenient for new GM's, but to say the lack of one means
you don't have a task system (or a "proper" task system) is
just hooey.
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 07 Oct 1999 22:22:53 -0800
From: Peter Newman <pnewman@gci.net>
Subject: Re: Firing two guns at once

> "Shawn Campbell" <shawn@electricstitch.com>

> One of my players likes to shoot 2 handguns at once.

I assume you mean the character, not the 
player.  I am assuming the character is 
human or humanoid in my answer.

> I have been increasing the difficulty by one level. (routine task become
> difficult when attempting to fire two weapons)
> I've been wondering if this is too severe or not enough... or if it should
> be based more on the weapons recoil.

Firing two guns at once means that you are trying
to do twice as much per round.  MT has a very clear
rule for this.  This is a hasty task and is +1
difficulty.  This should be the _minimum_ increase
for all such tasks.

If the two guns are fired at separate
targets an additional +1 difficulty 
because they can't focus their eyes on
both targets.

If the two targets are more than about 60
degrees of angle apart yet another +1 
difficulty mod.

The use of an additional penalty, possibly a
further +1 diff mod of the off hand is probably
also logical.


> <MT Task System>
> Maybe -2 DM for two low recoil guns, -4 DM for two med recoil guns and -8
> for two high recoil guns? Inbetweens can be figured out, like -3 DM for one
> low recoil and one med recoil, -6 DM for 1 med, 1 high recoil, etc...

I do not shoot so you may want to
cross check this w/ someone with
small arms experience but in the
interests of a nice simple system how 
about the following:

Simply apply the appropriate
recoil penalty for the next highest class

2 low recoil = medium recoil

2 medium recoil 
or 1 medium + 1 low = heavy recoil

1 heavy recoil + 1 low recoil =
use heavy recoil + medium recoil penalties

1 heavy recoil + 1 medium
or 2 heavy recoil =
You can't do that this is not
a Hong Kong action movie

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 7 Oct 1999 19:41:06 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Metric system & GURPS

In mail you write:

> Here are some more exact shortcuts:
>
> yards to meters: subtract 10%

I always use "10 ft = 3 meters". A quick calculation shows them to be
the same accuracy.

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 7 Oct 1999 19:43:45 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Annic Nova (longish)

In mail you write:

>> Not to cover the 'crime', to get rid of the plague infested ship.
>
> If the idea was to get rid of the ship, why not just send it into a star?

Simple. With the avialable thrust, that'd take a long time. And even a
*slight* error would result in merely a close pass. Likely not close
enough to destroy the ship.

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 8 Oct 1999 00:26:23 -0700
From: "Jesse DeGraff" <fenris@slip.net>
Subject: RE: Firing two guns at once

> BTW, weapons' experts...what's with this sidearm pistol shooting
> that seems to be so popular on TV/movies these days?  Is there *any*
> advantage that you can see to it?
>
> Eris


Which are you talking about?  The two guns / two hands approach, or the tilt
the gun over to the side gangster style as another poster suggested?

If #1, I can't really see it, no matter what.  You'd have to be very strong
(especially with larger calibers), and OUTSTANDING point shot, and you'd be
FUBAR when you had to reload or to clean a jam.  You'd have to re-holster or
set down one of the weapons, at which point you'd loose any advantage in the
spray-n-pray department.  I'm a reasonably talented marksman in pistol,
rifle (semi-auto), shotgun, SMG (thanks Mark!), true assault rifle (as in
full auto, again thanks Mark & wife [oops!  forgot name!  DOH!], main battle
rifle (.308, yet again, thanks Mark!), and GPMG (guess what, THANKS MARK!!!!
:)  Both in bech shooting and in tactical shooting.  In the last year I've
probably put a total of 2,000 rounds through my semi AR-15, 5,000 through my
HK USP .45, and about 1,000 through the various full auto's mentioned
(mostly 9mm & .223).  I would much rather use a main weapon with a backup
than to try and use two of anything at one time.  I'm talking long arm, SMG,
shotgun, or HE weapon :) with holstered pistol should the long gun go FUBAR.
Do I think Lara Croft or the poster's player can reasonably use two weapons?
Yeah, right.  Beyond contact or close range, no way.

If #2, ala ganster style, don't make me laugh :)  As best can be determined,
some producer or director probably saw a US Marine Corp pistol champion
(whose name escapes me at the moment) who was cross eye dominant shoot.  He
was right handed, but left eye dominant.  In the classic one handed stance,
if he tilted the gun 45 degrees to the left, the sights line up perfectly.
I've actually used this method when I lost a contact lense once, and it can
work, though for normal two handed shooting it was more comfortable to just
laterally shift my hands a couple of inches.  Anyway, some Hollywood type
probably saw this Marine punching single holes with multiple rounds, and
copied the move into a film.  It then gets copied in more films, and pretty
soon you see video surveilance footage on "America's Scariest Police Videos"
(thank you Fox >:P  ) of gangster punks holding up liquor stores this way.

Either way, your looking at purely a stylistic, artistic license thing.
Gee, that's never happened in Hollywood before :D


Best,
Jesse

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 08 Oct 1999 02:33:44 -0500
From: Shimmergloom <shimmer@mhtc.net>
Subject: Re: 3I vs WoD (was Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #1143)

> > William Hostman's conversion of Traveller under the ST system

Now this is the most interesting that I have heard in ages.  What is this guys
email addy and where can I get a copy of his rules.


- ----------------------------------------------
he he he he he he he he he he he he

      Shimmer

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 8 Oct 1999 08:56:48 +0100
From: Timothy.Collinson@solent.ac.uk
Subject: Re: Annic Nova

Keven responded to my thoughts on colonies:



>> Now funnily enough, I've been thinking about putting an adventure
together
>> that would involve a similarly marooned bunch of teenagers - but several
>> (say, three?) generations on.  No, this isn't aimed at being as dark as
>> _Lord of the Flies_ but I'd be interested to know what folk thought
about:
>>
>> a) the idea: is it 'overused'?

>Probably.  But what isn't, these days?


Come to think of it, I can't think of too many published adventures with
the idea.


>> b) How many kids would have to be involved to get a reasonable gene
pool.
>> I'd been imagining around 20 or so in the original population.

>Awful lotta inbreeding would happen at that level.  Course, if the
>environment was harsh enough, Mommie Nature would whack out the
inappropriate
>genes within a couple generations or so, if they didn't retain their
>technology...


Actually, I was thinking of an almost Edenic environment (at least in the
locality of the original colony) as I would have thought 20 odd teenagers
would pretty much need that to survive.  (I'm basically imagining they have
no experience of living outside their usual technological lifestyles; and
very little tools and technology to hand anyway - they're weren't supposed
to be or expecting to be here: misjump, adult supervisors dead, no chance
of rescue.)

I would guess that anything *but* an ideal garden type environment would be
pretty lethal under those conditions.  Particulary for what is essentially
an unorganized bunch of school children.  What I was interested in was what
kind of society might have developed after a few generations.

Something I didn't mention was that the original population would be
deaf/mutes communicating with sign language.  Presumably their descendents
would be physically able to speak but would still only communicate by sign.
I'm guessing it would be more than a few generations before speech might
emerge again independently as it were.


>You'd need life expectancy rates, age of fertility, # of births per year
per
>person, % of chance for the woman to die in childbirth, etc.  For a low
>population, say, 20-30ish, it'd be easy to do it by hand.


Well, I did start on doing that with a giant 'family tree' but I did wonder
about generalizing it so I could fiddle with the variables more!



>Got me.  I can't remember *any* of the statistics I squeaked through at
college 25 years >ago.


Likewise.  (Though in my case the RAM failure is sooner at just 15 years.)


*****

Black Ice then said:

>If you haven't read it yet, read _Tunnel in the Sky_, by Robert
>Heinlein.  It deals with a school survival trip gone wrong....


Yes, this was one of my favourite books in my youth  I just loved it so it
may have been in the back of my mind.  (I haven't read it for a while, but
would probably enjoy it just as much now).  What *was* the name of the
'creature' they were told to look out for which they spent ages puzzling
over what it actually was.


Thanks for the thoughts

tc

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 8 Oct 1999 03:15:08 -0500
From: "Lyle Youngblood" <lyley@gte.net>
Subject: "Side-arm" Firing

>Date: Thu, 07 Oct 99 23:03:32 -0500
>From: "Eris Reddoch" <eris@pcola.gulf.net>
>Subject: Re: Firing two guns at once
>BTW, weapons' experts...what's with this sidearm pistol shooting
>that seems to be so popular on TV/movies these days?  Is there *any*
>advantage that you can see to it?
>Eris


        I'm by no means an expert (qualified marksman on rifle, sharpshooter
on pistol), but I assume you're talking about the current TV and movie
trend of holding the pistol sideways which I completely fail to understand.
However, the one-hand extended "profile" (or Old West) position was
always my prefered method of firing for a combination of two reasons;
1) my hands are large enough and wrist strong enough to handle even
a .45 one-handed and 2) my belly is large enough to make the normal
2-handed FBI or combat crouch position uncomfortable.  Basically,
as long as you have the strength/hand-size to control your weapon,
the best firing position is whatever one you are most comfortable in
or with.  The minor superiority that the FBI position gives is only
significant to a truly expert shooter, one who is aiming for the "ten-
ring" rather than center of mass of a silhouette-shaped target.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 8 Oct 1999 17:41:04 -0700
From: "Antony Farrell" <Skaran@bigpond.com>
Subject: RE: Annic Nova (longish)

> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com
> [mailto:owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com]On Behalf Of Leonard
> Erickson
> Sent: Thursday, 7 October 1999 8:44 PM
> To: traveller@lists.imagiconline.com
> Subject: Re: Annic Nova (longish)
>
>
> In mail you write:
>
> >> Not to cover the 'crime', to get rid of the plague infested ship.
> >
> > If the idea was to get rid of the ship, why not just send it
> into a star?
>
> Simple. With the available thrust, that'd take a long time. And even a
> *slight* error would result in merely a close pass. Likely not close
> enough to destroy the ship.
>
> --
> Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
>  shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
> leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort
>
And besides the ship is metric but the thrust calculations were in imperial
er american er droyne!
Antony Farrell

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 8 Oct 1999 17:41:28 -0700
From: "Antony Farrell" <Skaran@bigpond.com>
Subject: RE: Firing two guns at once

> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com
> [mailto:owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com]On Behalf Of
> Sethkimmel@aol.com
> Sent: Thursday, 7 October 1999 7:52 PM
> To: traveller@lists.imagiconline.com
> Subject: Re: Firing two guns at once
>
>
> In a message dated 10/8/99 2:03:32 AM !!!First Boot!!!,
> shawn@electricstitch.com writes:
>
> << What are your thoughts? >>
>
> Well, for starters, you are going to lose your natural site plane
> (front site
> to rear site to eyeball) since you can only line up one weapon at
> a time to
> your dominant shooting eye. You will have to either hip shoot
> (shoot from the
> hip) or point shoot (treat the weapon as an extension of your
> shooting hands
> pointed index finger. I find this a VERY difficult way to aim a handgun
> although experts are VERY good at it) when you use two weapons at a time.
> Either method is less accurate than site shooting in my opinion. You also
> have less control with a handgun with one hand (especially your
> non dominant
> hand) than with two.
>
> I tried this experiment using my service revolver (a 1 kg, 102 mm
> barrel S+W
> model 10-see Americans can use metric...:-) ) in my strong hand,
> and my off
> duty revolver (much smaller) in my weak hand. I had a LOT of
> trouble with my
> weak hand hitting the center of mass part of the target at 14 meters,
> especially as my off duty weapon only had a 51 mm barrel which
> really affects
> accuracy. My strong hand was much better, though still very inferior to
> firing either weapon two handed... I concluded that I should only
> use my weak
> hand in emergencies.
>
> As for your method of kicking up the difficulty level one notch;
> this seems
> reasonable, and you should remember that if he/she runs both
> weapons empty,
> they can only reload one at a time, so they either have to drop a
> weapon, or
> do the really awkward "tuck a weapon under your armpit or in your belt"
> method while you reload the other weapon. Of course, if I emptied
> two weapons
> at the bad guys and they're still on their feet, I'm running the
> other way
> FAST...:-)
>
> Seth
>
During the Falklands (or Malvinas) war I have seen a program which showed
one of brits was firing two rifles simultaneously, whether he managed to hit
anything I don't know, he was himself shot and endured months of therapy. So
firing two weapons simultaneously can be done.

This brings up a question, in TNE battledress has as far as I can remember
two sockets for fusion guns, one on each side of the chest. Could a fusion
gun be plugged into both simultaneously, if so would both receive the
targetting info allowing dual fire at one or more targets?
Antony Farrell

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 8 Oct 1999 23:18:59 +1300
From: "Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>
Subject: Re: Annic Nova

On 8 Oct 99, at 8:56, Timothy.Collinson@solent.ac.u wrote:

> Black Ice then said:
> 
> >If you haven't read it yet, read _Tunnel in the Sky_, by Robert
> >Heinlein.  It deals with a school survival trip gone wrong....
> 
> 
> Yes, this was one of my favourite books in my youth  I just loved it so it
> may have been in the back of my mind.  (I haven't read it for a while, but
> would probably enjoy it just as much now).  What *was* the name of the
> 'creature' they were told to look out for which they spent ages puzzling
> over what it actually was.

Stubor.


- --
Rupert Boleyn <paradise.net.nz>
Wellington, New Zealand

A pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 8 Oct 1999 23:18:59 +1300
From: "Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>
Subject: RE: Firing two guns at once

On 8 Oct 99, at 0:26, Jesse DeGraff wrote:

> > BTW, weapons' experts...what's with this sidearm pistol shooting
> > that seems to be so popular on TV/movies these days?  Is there *any*
> > advantage that you can see to it?
> >
> > Eris
> 
> 
> Which are you talking about?  The two guns / two hands approach, or the
> tilt the gun over to the side gangster style as another poster suggested?
> 
> If #1, I can't really see it, no matter what.  You'd have to be very
> strong (especially with larger calibers), and OUTSTANDING point shot, and
> you'd be FUBAR when you had to reload or to clean a jam.  You'd have to
> re-holster or set down one of the weapons, at which point you'd loose any
> advantage in the spray-n-pray department.  I'm a reasonably talented
> marksman in pistol, rifle (semi-auto), shotgun, SMG (thanks Mark!), true
> assault rifle (as in full auto, again thanks Mark & wife [oops!  forgot
> name!  DOH!], main battle rifle (.308, yet again, thanks Mark!), and GPMG
> (guess what, THANKS MARK!!!! :)  Both in bech shooting and in tactical
> shooting.  In the last year I've probably put a total of 2,000 rounds
> through my semi AR-15, 5,000 through my HK USP .45, and about 1,000
> through the various full auto's mentioned (mostly 9mm & .223).  I would
> much rather use a main weapon with a backup than to try and use two of
> anything at one time.  I'm talking long arm, SMG, shotgun, or HE weapon :)
> with holstered pistol should the long gun go FUBAR. Do I think Lara Croft
> or the poster's player can reasonably use two weapons? Yeah, right. 
> Beyond contact or close range, no way.

I've tried using two SKS carbines at once from the hip. While an SKS 
has little recoil I found that the best I could do was to fire them 
alternately, so that the recoil from one countered the twisting effect 
of the recoil from the other. The reason I couldn't fire them both at 
once was that there was no way to brace against the recoil (by having 
one foot further forward), so I would have ended up on my backside. 

BTW with much practice it became possible to hit a 1' x 1' steel plate 
at 15 yards with most of the rounds from a 10 round mag in each. Of 
course the plate wasn't moving. With one SKS hip firing I could hit the 
plate with every round from at least twice the distance, with much the 
same ROF. It was an interesting experiment and much more fun than 
firing a 12 gauge shotgun one-handed - which I don't recommend, on the 
grounds that something that makes your wrist compress so that you can 
feel it bounce back can't be very good for said wrist.



- --
Rupert Boleyn <paradise.net.nz>
Wellington, New Zealand

A pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 08 Oct 1999 06:29:33 -0400
From: "Keven R. Pittsinger" <jamstar@accesstoledo.com>
Subject: Re: Annic Nova 

> On 8 Oct 99, at 8:56, Timothy.Collinson@solent.ac.u wrote:
> 
> > Black Ice then said:
> > 
> > >If you haven't read it yet, read _Tunnel in the Sky_, by Robert
> > >Heinlein.  It deals with a school survival trip gone wrong....
> > 
> > 
> > Yes, this was one of my favourite books in my youth  I just loved it so it
> > may have been in the back of my mind.  (I haven't read it for a while, but
> > would probably enjoy it just as much now).  What *was* the name of the
> > 'creature' they were told to look out for which they spent ages puzzling
> > over what it actually was.
> 
> Stubor.

Close.  Stobor.

<grin>

I'd comment further but I don't wanna spoil it for everybody.

Keven

- -- 
tc++ tm+ tn t4- to ru++ ge+ 3i c+ jt au st- ls pi+ ta+ he+ so- vi zh sy
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                     Science-Fiction Adventure
                                                     In Reavers' Deep

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1999 #1169
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